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As summer comes to a close, so does the Women Who Travel listener dispatch miniseries. Lale catches up with one last listener, Stephanie, about her recent trip to Oaxaca, where she found herself sharing a transformative hiking experience with a group of women.
Lale Arikoglu: Hello, I'm Lale Arikoglu, and welcome to Women Who Travel. This month, we've been hearing some phone calls between our listeners and me about travels they've taken in search of something. These phone calls have taken us to the Philippines, camping in the Grand Canyon, and across Europe.
And today, we hear from Stephanie, who spoke with us from her New York City apartment after just returning from Oaxaca, where she spent several weeks with a group of women during a personal and professional crossroads, and gained something rare: perspective. What type of traveler are you?
Stephanie: Okay. So I would say I am the kind of traveler that really, like... I got back from Mexico on Friday, and on Sunday I was already starting to think about my next trip [laughs]. So I am constantly trying to figure out where I'm going next, what I'm gonna be doing next. I, I wanna go everywhere. I also like to go to places that are not as often visited very, like... At least... Even if I go to a main area, I go to, like, a place that isn't very tourist-heavy within that area, sounds really exciting to me. I'm also a spreadsheeter. I love a plan. I love being like, “On these days we're gonna rest and on these days we're going to do activities.”
LA: Oh my god, I'm so impressed by spreadsheeters.
Stephanie: [laughs]
LA: I am not... I'm an inspiring spreadsheeter, but it all gets channeled into my job and I... never in my own personal trips.
Stephanie: You gotta try it. It, it brings me so much calm. Um, I will be honest, that I usually do the spreadsheet thing when I'm going with other people. But when I'm by myself, like I was for this trip, the spreadsheet is, like, in my head.
LA: Okay. So I really want to get into this trip because you went to Oaxaca, which is a place that I am desperate to get to.
Stephanie: Yeah.
LA: But before you take me there, I'm interested to know kind of, like, what sort of place were you in before you took the trip? Because often that can really inform both the reasons you're going, but also what the experience is like.
Stephanie: I actually knew I was going to Oaxaca last year, and that was because I had signed up for a program in Oaxaca. And a lot happened earlier this year. I just was so busy. And there was just a lot of chaotic moments in my personal life and in my professional life. In the last couple years, I've been working in the media industry, and while I love what I do, it has become really tumultuous, frankly. And so this to me was a... in a lot of ways, a crossroads. It, for me, was a chance to kind of reframe and reset what I actually wanted to do.
LA: You know, I love that because I travel a lot, obviously, and someone kind of made a slightly, like, flippant comment to me that then I got, like, really hung up on, which was that... which suggested that traveling all the time is often because you're just trying to, like, run away from real life.
Stephanie: Mm.
LA: But it sounds to... I know. I was like, “That's deep.”
Stephanie: Harsh. [laughs]
LA: I quite like my life. I just also really like traveling. But it sounds like to me it really was the opposite. You were traveling to Oaxaca in search of something and in search of the next phase of your career and of life, in some ways.
Stephanie: Exactly. Yeah. I think for the last 10 years I have built a life that I'm actually very happy with that, you know, I do not identify that I'm trying to run away from it. But I can feel it in my bones that I need a shift. And so Oaxaca in a lotta ways for me felt like an opportunity to just start a new chapter, you know?
LA: So you get there.
Stephanie: Yeah.
LA: Tell me about it. Where were you staying?
Stephanie: So I got there very late on a Wednesday. And the place that I was staying was essentially an Airbnb. It was huge. I walk in the doors and there's this huge open space. It almost feels like a courtyard within the house. And a woman greets me. She is one of the program directors. She takes me to my room and opens the doors. And I'm instantly in love. It's this huge room the size of my bedroom, bathroom, and hallway combined [laughs] in New York. Uh, the ceilings are 10 foot, maybe 15 foot ceilings. And there's a kitchen attached to the bathroom, so it's just... it's massive.
In the first night I... For some reason, usually I have trouble sleeping in new places, but I just... I knocked out immediately. And when I woke up, there were these huge... Because in Oaxa-... or at least where I was staying, there were no windows on either sides of the walls. But there was li- light coming from the roof.
LA: Like a big skylight?
Stephanie: Yes, exactly. So there were, like, four mini skylights on these 15 foot ceilings and they were just beaming light in the morning. And so when I woke up that morning, it was like, “I'm here. I made it. Like, this is it. This is the beginning.”
LA: And so you were there as part of... You know, you refer to the program director, so clearly you had some sort of, like, schedule.
Stephanie: Yes.
LA: Who, who were you with? And the... and what was that dynamic like? 'Cause you were kind of, like, traveling on your own, but you were with people.
Stephanie: Yeah.
LA: I have complicated feelings about being with groups and traveling with groups. I think that's my-
Stephanie: Same.
LA: ... only child really comes out in me.
Stephanie: I'm also an only child-
LA: Oh my god.
Stephanie: ... so same.
LA: [laughs]
Stephanie: [laughs] Same. Especially when you're traveling in groups with people that you don't know [inaudible 00:06:13]. Yeah. So I only met the program director very briefly that night. But the, the morning I woke up, uh, part of why I woke up was because I heard these voices outside my door. And it was the two other women that I was traveling with. They... One of them also is from New York and the other one is from Wales. And we didn't know each other beforehand. And frankly, I, I don't know, I get a little nervous, you know, meeting people in a new place when you're traveling. It's... Traveling can be very vulnerable, you know? And so... and a part of me was excited to not be fully alone, but another part of me was like, “I don't know. What are the dynamics gonna be?”
And after I woke up and I got my coffee, I went out into the courtyard where they were and we started chatting. And it became very clear like, "Oh, this is why people do programs, because they set you up with like-minded individuals." These were people who were very much in the same, you know, industry as I was and also had very similar wants out of the program and also found themselves in very similar crossroads. And so, in a lot of ways, it worked out better than I thought it could've because we just instantly gelled.
Lale Arikoglu: Tell me a little bit about the program. What were you…
Stephanie: Yes.
Lale Arikoglu: What were you doing?
Stephanie: So the program is called Pocoapoco and there's a couple different things that it serves, but the reason I was there was to be part of an independent study. It's a 10-day program where you come in with an idea or a project in mind, and you spend the next 10 days working on it at your own pace. So for me, it was something to do with writing. Like, I've been working on a lot of writing projects lately. And that's not necessarily... Like, my background is writing, but not as the front-facing of who I am. So for me, it was an opportunity to take the writing I've already done in the background and put it in the foreground. And so a lot of people who do the program end up having similar backgrounds. Like, one of the women I was with, um, she's a curator at a museum. But she was there to do stuff that had to do, like, with culinary arts. And another woman was a film director, but she was there to do some, like, print magazine writing stuff. So... Actually, I don't know if it was print magazine stuff, but it was, like, other kinds of writing.
LA: So it was really giving people an opportunity, and it sounds like you definitely had the opportunity-
Stephanie: Yeah.
LA: ... kinda take that thing that you really care about that's part of your work but, like, sometimes you probably feel like you don't quite have the time to do it. Or it f-... you feel guilty when you prioritize it over all your other work responsibilities. And you got to just actually, I mean, I wanna say almost be selfish, right?
Stephanie: Yeah. Exactly.
LA: What did it feel like to be selfish?
Stephanie: Freeing. I mean, that's creative freedom, right? When you're able to actually do the things that you want to do. We all have things we wanna do. We all have, "Oh, if I had the time, I could do this. If I had the time, I could do that." But when you actually get the time and you know what you want to do, you feel freer than you ever have felt. Or at least that's how I felt.
LA: So you got to be selfish, but you also were with other people.
Stephanie: Yeah.
LA: Tell me about some of the highlights. I mean, Oaxaca just seems like-
Stephanie: Oh my gosh.
LA: ... a really just rich and magical part of Mexico that… I mean, it terms of just in food and in alcohol and in fashion and textile. I mean, there's just so much there. And I have this picture in my head of it, but I wanna hear what it's like.
Stephanie: Yeah. I mean, in terms of why... 'Cause this part... This kind of program could've been a lotta different places, right? Um, but I think the reason that they chose Oaxaca is because of the rich cultural background. And I... That was one of the reasons I wanted to go there. Not just for the program, but to go to Oaxaca. And so I have to say, like, the... my experience there... and, like, immediately I felt connected to the city. It is a magical place, in that the food is incredible. Did not have one bad meal. I was eating memelas, I was eating flautas, I was eating [laughs], um, just anything I could get my hands on. Black mole and green mole and... Oh, it was incredible in terms of food.
Um, we also went about an hour away to a place where these really cool women collectives make pottery. And we got these beautiful bowls, clay bowls, and plates from just this group of women that were so kind and, and also have a really great Instagram presence [laughs].
LA: You're gonna have to tell me what handle it is.
Stephanie: I will.
LA: [laughs]
Stephanie: I'm gonna look it up. I can't remember off the top of my head. Um, and then one of the other more memorable experiences was, you know, about, like, day four or five, about halfway through the trip, one of the girls I was with, she was really excited about going to these... I didn't know much, but it was... it, it was supposed to be kind of, like, this really incredible mountain with a waterfall. And, um, I get a little carsick, so frankly I don't love doing day trips when I go on vacation because it's always a gamble. Um, but I was like... She just hyped it up so much that I was like, "All right, gotta go." And so we went. The trip there wasn't too bad, but it was literally like we were climbing up, up a mountain in a taxi.
And once we got there, you had to walk, like, about 15 minutes down a ledge. And the, the first thing that you see are these kind of pools. We got there very early. And they were completely empty. No one was in them. And they were really beautiful, but we were also like, "Wait, where's the waterfall? [laughs] We were promised a waterfall." And so we just start kind of asking around. And s- someone directs us into this other area that we had to walk up all these steps and it felt like a hike.
And finally we hear some water in the background. And when we get to the top, it is... it is not a waterfall. So it's just, like, a river [laughs]. Or at least maybe sometimes it is a waterfall, but it was not a waterfall when we went there. But when you look up, you just see this huge mountain. And it is breathtaking. Like, I, I couldn't breathe. It was just so beautiful. And one of the women that I was with, um, her mother had passed away year ago. And she told us that, you know, she brings, like, little pieces of her ashes to scatter them into different places that she travels to. Um, and those are places that usually she feels like her mom would've loved to be in or places that, you know, her mom actually wanted to go to but never got to go.
And so as we were looking up at this mountain, she was like, "I think this is... I think this is the spot. I have to take my mom here." And so we find, like, this area and she goes off to the corner and she scatters her mother's ashes. And then she comes back and talks about how her mom loves birds and how birds were such a meaningful thing for her mom. And as she's kind of giving us this background, we look up and there's just this sea of birds circling exactly where she had just scattered her mother's ashes. It was just, like, incredible. Like, you, you could not...
And the birds just, just swarmed for about a minute or two, and then they flew away and they scattered. And it was, like... I don't know how you see something like that and you don't, you know, believe in whatever you believe, but believe in something. And for me, that was a trip highlight. Like, we wa-... I walked away from that being like, "Oh my god, I'm meant to be here. She's meant to be here. These... I'm meant to be here with these women. And we are also surrounded by something else greater than us, you know?"
LA: I feel like travel is really unique, in that it throws you together with strangers to often have really intense or-
Stephanie: Yeah.
LA: ... significant shared experiences that you would never have with a stranger in everyday life. 'Cause at what... at that point, what, you had known these women for-
Stephanie: Four days.
LA: ... four days. And-
Stephanie: [inaudible 00:15:03]
LA: ... suddenly you're together at this, like, incredibly meaningful moment. Did you find that, like, almost, like, fast-tracked your relationships?
Stephanie: Definitely.
LA: Do you think there was something special about it being with women?
Stephanie: Yes. I think A, it definitely intensified our relationship to each other, and B, the group I was with not only these three women that I had been doing the program with, but the, the program director and all the people who were running the program were also all women. And just being in a place that is A, meant for creativity, B, you're with like-minded individuals, and then C, it's all women, you instantly feel a, a connection. [inaudible 00:15:50] connection doesn't even feel like the... a strong enough word. Like, you just feel a binding presence, maybe is a... is a better word. Where, you know, forget what happens after this trip, and maybe even forget what happened before. Like, we have this moment together. And as women [laughs], we just... we, we will always hold it. Even a... We, we talk about... We- we're still on WhatsApp and we still text every now and then. But even that, it doesn't feel the same, I have to be honest.
LA: Mm-hmm.
Stephanie: And I think part of that is because this experience that we shared together is so deep and connected and present in that moment that you really... you can't even reexperience it.
LA: You know, when we started having this conversation, you talked a little bit about the head space you were in before you went and what you were looking for. And I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but it kinda sounds like you were looking for answers in some way-
Stephanie: Yeah.
LA: ... or clarity as to what your next steps were. Do you think that experience on the mountain helped get you to the next place?
Stephanie: Yes. Because even though, you know, it wasn't my mother, but being there, it was such a reminder that, to me, that while I may a... you know, every day we just go on our computers and we, like, work these jobs and we do the thing, capitalism, and all blah, blah, blah [laughs]. And, like-
LA: [laughs]
Stephanie: ... but, like, you look up, you, y-... When you look up and you see, like, how we are just so much bigger than our individual experiences, it is such a reminder that you can... whatever the thing is that you're going through is so temporary and you can shift it.
LA: I'm Lale Arikoglu, and you can find me on Instagram @lalehannah. Our engineer this week is Jake Lummus. The show is mixed by Amar Lal. Jude Kampfner from Corporation for Independent Media is our producer. Special thanks to Jordan Bell for producing this episode. If you have a memorable travel story, write to us at Women Who Travel at cntraveler.com. Next week, New York writer Rebecca Mead shares memories of her 2021 trip to Pompeii, with recent updates on fast food in ancient Rome.
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